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WHY FOUR ENGINES ARE BETTER THAN TWO............

Discussion in 'Airplane, Aircraft & Jumbo Jet Talk' started by Richard Wyeroski, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yes, can not risk the leader of the free world on one engine in the event of a failure!

    BTY there is an order in for 2 new 747 aircraft to become the new AIRFORCE 1........
     
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  2. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Well I believe this thread will hit the 200k mark. Amazing right!. There have been big changes by the airlines with respect to Twin Jet operations long distance over the poles and the Pacific. I remain concerned, but no one really cares. Other then some close calls and landings on a few remote islands in the middle of no where, there has not be a fatal with a loss of all aboard.

    Every airline in the US, Europe and the rest of the world has switched to new twin jets. Being a former FAA inspector, I know the risk management boys are looking at 330 minute ETOPS rules. Yes they are looking alright, they now issued 350 minutes if needed. There are big fuel savings and more profit, which is the idea.

    The risk has increased 10 fold as many more aircraft are now operating twins. The risks increase. The same problems are still there like bogus parts and poor unsurvailed maintnenance by shops in third world countries. Add to the fact that the FAA has close all their International Field Offices IFO's around the world and so no inspections are being performed by the FAA any longer over seas!

    The risks are higher. much higher and no one really cares. One day soon a fully loaded wide body will go down with all souls lost. Then it will happen again. Then and only then will some one wake up and go back to safer operations. So don't dump those four engine aircraft right away. I know a bunch are moth balled in a dry area for when they will be needed.

    Richard Wyeroski, former FAA safety Inspector GS-13/4
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  3. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    View attachment 2307
    I'm sure President Trump will inevitably have to redirect some funds to re-open overseas FAA inspections(as well as FINISHING the wall) since the Demoquacks are hell bent on destroying anything concerning common sense in the USA. (He's just starting), Btw, since 'Billary' and Obozo/Michael Lavagn Robinson posted OLD W.H. Christmas card greetings via twitter, and Ruth(post prostate cancer) Bader 'Ginsborgue'(on ice until it's convenient for the Demoquacks to hold an inflated fake funeral(ala McCain style to divert attention)) have been missing in the public eye since 1-2-19(a day after the new military tribunal law took affect), I wonder how busy it's been in the 'tropics'? ;):p
     

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  4. Orca17

    Orca17 Hangar Bronze Member VI

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    Good God. Some people need to pull their heads out of Trump's hind end long enough to take a breath.
     
  5. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    I see that the big A380 will cease production in 2021. It will be interesting to see if the 747-8 picks up any orders. I don’t see it happening because the 777X is coming soon, and the airlines seem to be heading full tilt toward twin jets.
     
  6. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yes all airlines are getting rid of their 4 engine jets. So there will be 100% twin jets on long overwater and polar routes.

    What could happen?
     
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  7. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Hi All

    The thread is approaching 200,000 hits world wide. I only hope now that I am wrong and there will not be airliners being lost on the long over water and polar flights.

    However, the risks have increased a lot and the regulators are holding their breath!

    No one wants fatal air crashes, however they will happen no matter what we do.

    I personally feel that two engines are dangerous and now that 10’s of thousands of flights are being made in twin jets the chances have increased.

    Nothing more to say..........only that I hope the profits justify loss! according to the risk management boys!

    Lastly, I would like to dedicate this thread to Ed who passed away last year....He fought the good fight!

    Rest In Peace .....Buddy!


    1. 4,880
      Edward Jeszka
      Hangar Gold Member I, Male, 72, from Birmingham, Alabama
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    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  8. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Well said. :)
     
  9. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    Well said Rich. One thing to remember it was the Risk Management boys that decided it was acceptable to leave the fuel tank of the Ford Pinto outside the car's frame and just payoff the lawsuits rather than listen to the test engineers which would have required a design change thus more money and delayed production. Didn't work out too well for them.
     
  10. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    I must say, any car that gets rear ended at 70 mph while it's standing still will end bad, BUT, my Dad who worked on many ford cars for co workers back before the days of ambulance chasers and a litigious society(not that he did anything wrong) said that the Pinto was one of the most poorly designed cars from the engine bay back for mechanics.
     
  11. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Well it's been a long run for this thread with just 200,000 hits from around the world and the United States.

    There are now 10's of thousand of two engine flights over the poles and Pacific routes. Now we wait ! Will there be problems? There have now been many emergency returns. Maintenance oversite by governments have been reduced and the boys parts problem has been increasing to as high as 15% of all parts installed. The problem will only get worse.

    So now with less government control of foreign Maintenance Repair and Overhaul MRO facilities, all we can do now is wait!

    THE INEVITABLE IS NOW UPON US ALL!o_O
     
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  12. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    200,000 plus hits and counting. I only hope this thread did some good as to the plite of twin jet operations around the world over hostile terrain!!!


    image.jpeg
     
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  13. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Hmmm......this tread is still going pretty strong! It received 4700 hits in the last 3.5 months

    It is still being read and there is still more and more twin jet, long over water flights being added by the airlines!

    Interesting in a word!
     
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  14. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    The reason it's still getting hits is because of the subject matter. Even though I flew to Europe on an A330 I wasn't as confident as I was when I flew there on a 747. It's not like twin engine failure is unheard of, look at Sully, Southern Airways 242 back in 1977 just come right to my mind. True it both instances foreign objects were ingested into the engines which caused both to fail.
    But what if some mechanical issue happens at 37,000 feet. The airlines have been lucky up until now. These engines haven't been without their own problems like the Rolls Royce Trent or the new GE next generation engines. I know the airline industry is all about the money but there was a time when safety and redundancy was just as important.
    It's just a matter of time I believe, the airlines are playing Russian Roulette and unfortunately, lives will have to be lost, and probably the right ones then then everybody will be asking "Who the hell thought this was a good idea?".
     
  15. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Wall St.
     
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  16. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Yep, the Wall St. money guys who wouldn’t know common sense if it fell in their lap.
     
  17. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Well it is done. Most airlines are operating with twins over the Pacific. Great! they are saving a bundle in fuel.

    The risk is high. However they all could afford one crash where hundreds die!

    Let’s see what happens.........

    BTW the tread got another 5000 hits since May!?
     
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  18. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Although the Pacific is a vast area, they're building emergency strips everywhere they can as fgast as they can to provide easier ETOPS accessibility and (justifiable) viability. They have a way to go yet no doubt, but the problems that all engine manufacturers are having with evolving engine technology nowadays is alarming considering their respective past excellent reputations for reliability, mainly RR, GE & especially P&W GTFs seem to be a big prob in the smaller engine arena. Has engine tech reached its limit due to economical pressure, 2 or 4? Regardless, Boeing needs new management that isn't run by idiots on Wall St.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  19. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    I still say the airlines are pushing the safety envelope. While extremely rare and usually caused by the intake of foreign objects or a defect in the engine itself such as the Southwest 1380 incident the loss of an engine is by number of flights flown rare. Dual engine failure even more so. But again not unheard of, The cases where both engines failed take the Air Transat Airbus A330 with its fuel leak. Twin engine failure where they almost didn't make it. They were over the Atlantic at 33,000 feet and 15-20 mins glide time which brought them in range of an air base in the Azores otherwise they would have had to ditch. The Pacific is a much bigger area with less land mass in proximity to each other.
    It's the Wall Street Guys, and the Bean Counters and basing life and death decisions on actuary tables. It think I posted this once before. The 1971 Ford Mustang known for it "exploding" gas tanks was uncovered by the engineers during testing and recommended the fuel tank be put inside the car's frame. Ford Bean Counters somehow figured don't know the real figures but the gas tank would explode X amount of times in X amount of accidents which was an "acceptable" risk. Cheaper to pay off the victims' and their families than do a redesign and slow down introduction and production of the vehicle. They had to do it anyway in the end after unforgivable loss of life and disability. That's these guys DNA. It's all about the Benjamins. Every human life had a price on it and it can be paid off. It's just a matter of time. What airline and who will be the victims will gauge the volume of the public's outcry.
     
  20. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Point taken BUT! The 71 Mustang was a much larger car and completely different than the 1st 74 Mustang II(4 cyl P.O.S.), a derivative of the PINTO because of the downsizing due to the fake fuel shortage. The question of gas tank risks didn't even come into play before the 1st Pinto explosion as it was hit in the rear end at 70 mph, while standing still!. Even a Lincoln Continental(or similar) would have exploded under the same circumstances back then. The lawyers exploited the Pinto and lots of other compact cars after back then because the payouts to them were YUGE! Ahh! The invention of Ambulance chasing lawyers came about then too because of! But that's a different subject. ;)

    My 72 Mustang mach1 and LX CJ
     

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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