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Vietnam Airlines flight almost landed without landing gear down

Discussion in 'Latest Airline Incidents' started by Everett 757, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    A Vietnam Airlines flight was within one minute of landing at Melbourne Airport on Thursday morning when air traffic controllers were shocked to discover the Boeing 787 Dreamliner’s landing gear was still up.
    Air safety officials have launched an investigation into the incident, regarded as extremely serious because the plane came so close to the ground without landing gear having been put down.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/con...ithout-landing-gear-down-20190919-p52t3j.html
     
  2. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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  3. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Doesn't that plane (and many others) automatically put the gear down by a predetermined barometric pressure setting or other system unless overridden by the pilots?
     
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  4. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Looking at Boeing 787 cockpit videos, one of the the pilots has to pull the lever down that’s located on the panel in front of them to lower the landing gear.
     
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  5. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    They all do, but what I'm talkin about is a back up in case either/or forget or if in auto land mode.
     
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  6. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    I tried to do a little research on that, but wasn’t able to come up with a definitive answer. I guess EG would be the best one to fully answer this question.
     
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  7. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    I too tried a little research on the subject. First we have glaring pilot error here in following the landing checklist. I would think an aircraft as sophisticated as the 787 would have some kind of warning system to indicate the gear was not extended as the aircraft approached the runway. Even though it may have to be lowered by throwing the landing gear lever isn't there a warning system to indicate the gear isn't down? One article I read said there is a warning system while another said their isn't. So no sure answer here. One thing I noticed in the comment section is that someone commented on the fact the Vietnam Airlines is mainly using Western crews. Again an indication of the lack of qualified local pilots in Asia to be piloting sophisticated airliners. Again Asia with it's booming airline industry seems to be lacking the ability to train and qualify its own pilots to fly for its growing airline industry.

    Reminds me back in the 70's when Pan Am supplied flight crews to Dominicana with its one Boeing 727-100 and to Iran Air before the fall of the Shah. Pan Am I believed had close to a 50% stake in Iran Air at the time of the Irananian Revolution. One of the airline's Boeing 747SP had a Pan Am N registration number on it. Well at least the tower caught this one and were not writing about casualties. But someone should lose their jobs here.
     
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  8. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    There had to be a configuration warning?
     
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  9. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    The first being going to fast without the MLG drag? You'd think they'd feel the lack thereof in the cockpit even? Was a couple of their bikini clad FAs sitting on the pilot's faces? :eek:
     
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  10. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    Ok some more research today. According to the data sheet published in 2011 by the manufacturer of the landing gear system for the 787 a Canadian company there is a "Configuration Warning" if the gear is not extended while the aircraft is configured for landing it would give off both an aural and visual warning.

    This is why I hate the internet sometimes, then 2 other stories one from Reuters that the initial batch of 787's delivered to ANA experienced landing gear extension problems but was later corrected. Then another story is that there is no warning system.

    I can't believe there is no warning system. Once again reading stories on the Vietnam incident one says the altitude was 625 ft the other 1500. Which is it? The only thing I can speculate at 1500 feet maybe the aircraft was too high for the system to activate. I wish I knew a 787 pilot.
     
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  11. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Hard to believe they were instructed to do a go around for no MLG at 1,500 ft. AGL. When I was a kid, we lived under the approach 8-9 miles from 21L/R at DTW. Pattern altitude where we lived was about 1,750 ft and most lowered there gear as we watched and some didn't. Never saw a go around for that.
     
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  12. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    LL I don't know about the bikini clad F/A's but as a passenger I know when the landing gear is extended. I can feel the extension and the drag when it is lowered. Maybe these guys were discussing what they were going to have for lunch. Like the data sheet I uncovered indicated there is a warning system. I going to take that as fact since it was published by the manufacturer. All I know here MAJOR problem here following procedure and situational awareness. How can you be coming in on approach with three red landing gear indicator lights glaring at you. If there was an accident which fortunately there wasn't due to keen eyes of an Air Traffic Controller in the Melbourne tower it would be no question pilot error.
     
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  13. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yeah, like not using a checklist. Major cause of crashes imho.
     
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  14. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    .........Something is not right here? ATC had to tell them their gear was not down? Yep there had to be alarms and red lights in the cockpit big time.......?

    So if they crashed and everyone got killed would everyone blame boeing.....?? Sure smells!
     
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  15. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Whatever happened here in this situation, I believe the final responsibility lies with the pilots to make sure the gear is down.
     
  16. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    I have investigated my share of gear up landings. It is easier to forget to put the gear down in a light aircraft single or twin. There is a gear horn and when power is reduced the thing goes off and scares the hell out of the pilot!

    Turbo prop and jet aircraft being heavier aircraft can kill everyone aboard if the aircraft is landed gear up. It a heavy aircraft for sure. Manny tons of aluminum fuel and people. Forgetting the gear is almost impossible!

    Now a 787 weighs a lot and again landing it gear up is very dangerous. So the manufacturer provides safety alerts that will alert the pilot unless he is “DEAD”

    It’s hard to believe the crew missed the gear and maybe they had an emergency ??

    It still stinks worse then Limburger Cheese and something rotten in Denmark!!!
     
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  17. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Absolutely, but what happens when both are incapacitated for one reason or another? It should be built into the system for speeds that would allow for the MLG to be lowered during a correct auto land configuration too. Airlines aren't payin for a Yugo of an aircraft afterall.
     
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  18. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    There is a gear warning in the 787. It's the same as in most other airliners. It's part of the EGPWS. It goes off at 700' above the field elevation. Normally the gear is extended at 2000' and about 6 miles from the threshold (glideslope extension). Australia has some mighty clear air most of time and controllers can usually see an airliner through binoculars inside the point of normal gear extension. Most tower controllers' rules require the controller to visually check that the gear of each landing aircraft is down to avoid runway closures. This controller wasn't lazy and did his/her job. As for check-lists, they're only as good as the pilots make them. I can recite my checklists from memory along with the typical responses, but I don't do that because I know how dangerous complacency can be. Vietnam Airlines has about a 50/50 mix of foreign to local pilots. VN is the legacy airline for Vietnam and, while not as bad as in the US, if you want a bikini babe for cabin crew, best go another airline....
     
  19. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    We always put the gear down one dot above G/S intercept. Where ever a pilot puts it down it should be consistent......
     
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  20. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    Thank you for the clarification Guy. I can't imagine that there was no warning system. Again the internet and it's reliability, but one article said according to FlightRadar24 the aircraft was 675 feet when Melbourne Tower advised them that the gear was not down. If the system was operating why were they continuing the approach. Like LL who grew up near DTW, I grew up about 5 miles away from LGA. I would regularly watch the planes land on Runway 31 from my backyard. The gear was usually down by the time I caught the plane with my binoculars or camera.

    The ATSB is launching an investigation but in a press statement Vietnam airlines is hinting at a possible "technical error" Blame Boeing?

    As far as the "bikini-clad" F/A's. long gone here in the U.S. My older cousin was a "Hostess" for TWA and yes she looked like a model all the qualifications that the airlines looked for in 1969, Weight in proportion to height, straight even with teeth not only that but a college grad and spoke both Spanish and French fluently.

    Over the summer, with MAX being grounded, Norwegian wet leased an Airbus A330 from Evelop the Spanish charter airline to fly SWF-DUB I guess no Federal Labor Laws in Spain. When that cabin crew walked through the terminal I guess about 10 in all smart designer uniforms, not a hair out place mostly female wearing heals and a confident walk that turned heads when they went by. It was reminiscent of the Pam Am stewardesses walking through the World Port with the same air of confidence. I could safely say the female ones would probably look good in a bikini.

    Lets see what the ATSB comes up with. The whole incident is unbelievable.
     

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