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The mad rush to build the 737MAX series to beat Airbus A320neo

Discussion in 'Airplane, Aircraft & Jumbo Jet Talk' started by Everett 757, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Third world airline has third world pilots
     
  2. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    I think the President wants answers and will start cleaning house and replacing the agenda, inept management!

    I for one volunteer for one of The jobs and I would love to get the out the broom!!!:eek:
     
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  3. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    You are so right LL......
     
  4. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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    ...well, after watching the first round of Senate hearings, the regulator and swamp will dance the dance and convince the senators that it was the third world countries fault for the crashes. Things are quietly being fixed and life will go on like nothing happened. There will be minor changes to the regulator's way of doing things and will return back to the business as usual later after the pressure goes away. The administrator nominee won't change any house cleaning and the "biggly one" will have other bigger things to go after.

    Quiet simply, nothing is going to happen just because 346 people died in third world countries. No regulator will loose their job. SAD!!!
     
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  5. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Again, some nefarious entity is trying to set Boeing up.
     
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  6. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    In this day there are so many nefarious entities, that you can’t keep track of them. The swamp, the deep swamp, the ultra-deep swamp, and on and on. :eek:
     
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  7. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Disagree this time, my friend, strongly disagree.
    Boeing played themselves this time.
    Boeing engineers failed to account for several different failure modes.
    That it didn't take long for the results to show the level of their failure speaks volumes about the incompetence.
    Heck, it's Boeing's version of Airbus' Paris Airshow accident.
    The B-787 battery fiasco was the same.
    The KC-46 program has been a 20 year fiasco and still has quality control issues.
    The last of the slide-rule engineers retired with the B-777 introduction. There's a correlation.
    The finance department become more powerful than the engineering department and the results were inevitable.

    The transcripts from the Ethiopian crash show that the pilots performed the recommended Boeing actions.
    Seven MAX trained US crews were sent into the sim and all failed to recover.
     
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  8. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yes it does look or 'Appear' like that my friend, but FR24 AND FlightAware show the assigned flight# of the Ethiopian crash took off and landed, no body parts, too clean bunched up clothes and no fire(scorched earth) at that 'published' scene. It is also reported that on the LionAir flight that the pilot of the preceding flight had the same thing happen but he figured out how to defeat it and landed safely, Remember EG? KC-46 problems? Any others? and last but not least, here's some answers! Beware of the Deep State my friend, THIS IS REAL......






    Of course Rich and a few others KNOW how lawsuits are dismissed too.

     
  9. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member III

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    Working at SWF I had the pleasant experience to speak to two Norwegian Airlines B737Max Pilots who are now flying the B737-800 into SWF in and out from DUB. Because of the grounding of the MAX Norwegian discontinued flights from Edinburgh, Shannon and flights into PVD. They are wet leasing aircraft from Evelop Airlines of Spain to try to beef up their schedule. They told me the Ethiopian Airlines could have been prevented despite the malfunction of the AOA sensor and the MCAS system. The throttles were still at a high setting and the airspeed made it impossible to manually trim the aircraft. They were saying that if they did reduce thrust and thereby airspeed that it would have been possible to either trim the aircraft by using the manual trim wheel or the trim tab control on the yoke and pull back on the yoke at the same time and the aircraft probably would have responded. They told me it all came down to training. Maybe the third world training theory is right. And not to fault the dead God help me but a SIC with only 200 total flight hours on such a complex aircraft. They agreed with me. Again sad chain of events,
     
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  10. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Yes, I saw that in the report that the throttles were still in takeoff position and thrust wasn’t reduced. It would be akin to trying to drive a car down a really crooked road with the petal pushed to the floor. It would be impossible to maintain control.
     
  11. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    I trained in the first world on B-727 which is essentially the same basic system for horizontal stab trim, minus MCAS. I only became aware of the jamming issue for manual trim today. Airline pilots in the first world (USA) were screaming about not having training for MCAS. I'm not so keen to play the third world card on this one. I could play it on the Lion Air crash, but Ethiopian provides more training. As for 200 hour TT First Officers, their only requirement is to land an aircraft if the Captain becomes incapacitated. If either First Officer had significant experience, I don't know that the outcome would have been different. The Captains had sufficient experience and still screwed it.

    The bottom line is that there is a HUGE difference between sim training and an actual emergency. You just can't tell how a pilot will react when the real thing hits. Startle effect, tunnel vision, panic, confusion..... as for the Lion Air crew that solved the problem and landed safely, I'm thinking the Captain had some general aviation background- lots of hand flying because the auto-pilots never work, and lots of emergencies.
     
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  12. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member III

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    Exuma, I agree with you on the Ethiopian accident. Even though they're based in Africa I always heard they had a solid reputation and wanted to stay that way and didn't cut corners. Could be like you said SIM training is different than real world, the crew could have just become overwhelmed especially with such little altitude to trouble shoot.
     
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  13. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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    Ponder this demonstration for a moment??
     
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