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The mad rush to build the 737MAX series to beat Airbus A320neo

Discussion in 'Airplane, Aircraft & Jumbo Jet Talk' started by Everett 757, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/business/boeing-737-max-crash.html

    Normally I don’t read The Times, but this article is quite revealing. It was a frantic pace and effort to design the 737MAX series because Boeing had wasted time in coming up with a totally new plane.

    One key part of this lengthy article I found interesting was where James Albaugh was dismissive of the Airbus A320neo. Here is that portion below.

    [Dismissing a Rival.

    Boeing didn’t seem that bothered at first by the A320neo, the fuel efficient plane that Airbus announced in 2010.

    At a meeting in January of the next year, James F. Albaugh, the chief executive of Boeing’s commercial airplanes division, told employees that Airbus would probably go over budget creating a plane that carriers didn’t really want, according to a record of the meeting reviewed by The Times.

    Mr. Albaugh boasted that carriers were already paying more for Boeing’s single-aisle jet than the Airbus version. He didn’t see the need to strike now—Boeing could wait until the end of the decade to produce a new plane from scratch, the executive said.

    “I don’t think we need to get too spun up over the fact that they’re making some sales,” he said.

    For decades, Airbus was barely on Boeing’s radar. A consortium started in 1970 by several European countries, it was slow to compete globally. Boeing founded in 1916, dominated the passenger-jet market with its 737 midsize jet and the 747 jumbo jet.

    Then came John Leavy, an American who rose through the ranks to become the chief Airbus salesman in 1994. Mr. Leahy was relentless. Once the chief executive of an airline got sick just as a deal was about to close, Mr. Leahy traveled to the man’s house, and the executive signed the papers while wearing his bathrobe.

    “Boeing thought we were a flash in the pan,” Mr. Leahy said in an interview. “But I thought there was no reason we couldn’t have 50 percent of the market.” ]
     
  2. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Obviously that same mentality prevailed when Boeing didn’t come up with a viable 757 replacement, and the A321neo and the longer range A321LR is selling faster than good hotcakes on a cold morning.
     
  3. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member III

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    This is an example of management becoming complacent with the idea of their product being number one. Hertz Rent A Car who I am a manager for never considered Enterprise Rent A Car a threat because Hertz had been Number One for over 75 years in the late 90's. Enterprise who advertised we'll come pick you up for their neighborhood locations has a pretty good catch on the local rental market. Hertz on the other hand did have local off airport branches but only in major business centers that catered to the corporate market. Hertz market share at major airports continued to be number one until Enterprise entered the Airport Markets and bought National Car Rental. Now Hertz in number 2 in the United States in market share but still number one internationally because of Enterprise did not enter the international market. The over confidence of Hertz upper management who had been in that position for close to 30 years were ousted when Ford Motor Company sold Hertz and issued an IPO. A new challenge for a 100 year old company. The Enterprise brand is better recognized by millennials and younger customers where Hertz has a better recognition with older customers and an older demographic.
    Enter Boeing. Yes those Airbus A300's I saw on the ramp at Eastern Airlines and later American Airlines in the 1970's where from that upstart company which also I thought at the time would never challenge Boeing. But I wasn't in Boeing management. Somebody was asleep at the switch much like Hertz and didn't see the competition biting them in the tail.
    It is always about the money. If Airbus could offer a more cost effective aircraft while Boeing sat on their hands while contemplating a Boeing 757 replacement and it took American Airlines to wake them up.

    Of course now Boeing is rushing to market it's new 737Max to compete putting pressure on its engineers and employees to get this to market something is going to slip through the cracks. I've seen this in the automotive sector especially with Chrysler who rushed products to market only to have to issue recalls once the vehicle was in service.

    This is far more serious in an airliner than a subcompact Dodge Dart. There is a lot of blame to go around here. Boeing for not realizing their place in the market and then adapting an existing airframe to compete with Airbus. It's seems like the jury rigging of engineering systems to compensate for the changes in the aircraft's design and then "selling" the aircraft to the carriers that all their pilots would need to make the transition to the new MAX was an E-Learning on an I-Pad. Again to save money.

    Then we have the FAA who is supposed to ensure that these changes were safe and all they did was rubber stamp them. Boeing could have handed them menus from Denny's and the plane probably would have been certified.

    Three hundred and forty-six people lost their lives. The media coverage seemed to wake up Boeing and the FAA that they have an issue here. But my question is, will these incidents change they way business seems to be done. Eliminate the coziness between the FAA and the manufacturer. This time the public seems acutely aware of these issues and as an AVGEEK I have my neighbors asking me about it. But the public has short memories. The software updates will be done. The plane will go back in service but the root problem is the certification process. Will that change? Experience tells me probably not sadly.
     
  4. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Well said, Kevin. You’re absolutely right.
     
  5. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    The same situation happened with the 787 battery problem.

    FAA also allowed Airbus to defer an AD on the A-330 pitot system, which was resonsible for the crash of AirFrance 447.

    Former FAA employees often lobby the FAA for the companies they work for.

    The FAA has about 40 engineers which can become overwelmed. It is one reason it take a lot of time for FAA to certify anything. So they often take the manufacturers data as is and rubber stamp it.....

    Will it change? I think not since the FAA has been removing themselves from flight testing and aircraft certification? Why.....because of the money and lack of qualified personnel!
     
  6. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Yes, it’s certainly a very serious problem that needs to be dealt with. With the current status quo it’s going to be a long ole road.
     
  7. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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    ...it's quite simply pure incompetence!! The regulator hasn't kept up with the times. They have plenty of money to fully staff their management ranks. They waste millions on pet projects. Ask the experts and they can't tell you how to do a carbon fiber repair, but they can tell you how to stitch and dope a rib!! Incompetence at it's best!!
     
  8. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Well said Russ!
     
  9. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yep, Boeing sat on their a$$es about a 757 replacement. Letting Wall St ruin er, I mean 'run' the company again, which is lack of good management from the top.
     
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  10. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    I think Trump will allocate new money as another 'National Emergency' action AFTER he finds competent people to replace the swamp rats in the FAA.
     
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  11. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    just remember one thing, There's a new man at the helm of this country. He means business!
     
  12. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    He
    There has been a new Administrator appointed. Let’s see what happens.

    The new Adminstrator will look at the agenda driven management and clean house......it has to be done or nothing will change!!!
     
  13. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Abso
    Absolutely right. Something HAS to be done.
     
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  14. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    You’re absolutely right. When you put out a quality product that people or companies will buy, then the $$ take care of themselves. When you let only $$ signs run a company and don’t concern yourself with a good quality product then it ruins the company, the reputation, and the morale of the employees.
     
  15. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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  16. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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    I can't find anything in the 737 Rev 16 FSB that even talks about the MCAS training and checking. The complete document is too large to attach here.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    The new Administrator came from Delta senior management. He already has 'cozy ties' to Boeing. Unless the President tells him to clean house, it's business as usual at 800 Independence.
     
  18. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    The FAA engineers that were assigned to the certification were told by some manager to accept the Boeing data without delay. It was rubber stamped. It save time and money for everyone!

    I find it hard to believe that all a crew had to do was throw two switches on the panel to deactivate the MCAS system. I find it hard to believe that these two crews did not know this?o_O
    A9F3F7E0-0E1F-47D8-A657-0BA6D73D761A.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  19. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    He will tell him to clean house......
     
  20. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    I wonder how this is all going to shake out?
     

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