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Pilot union get involved with 737 Max

Discussion in 'Airline Talk & Discussion' started by Richard Wyeroski, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Two pilot unions met with Boeing to discuss the recent 737 Max crash. Southwest Ailines is a big user of the MAX and have more on order. Southwest was not aware of the "new" system. !!!!!

    The big Question here is why!

    Could this crash have happened in the US?

    More questions to be answered here.



    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MORE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Boeing Meets With Pilot Unions On MAX Questions
    PAUL BERTORELLI
    [​IMG]


    Attempting to tamp down pilot concerns about its 737 MAX following the Lion Air crash, Boeing technical representatives met with at least two pilot unions this week. And industry sources say the company is considering a software revision to the airplane’s anti-stall autotrim system.

    Lion Air JT610, a 737 MAX with only 800 hours on the airframe, crashed into the Java Sea off Jakarta on Oct. 29, killing all 189 people aboard. The Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee released a preliminary report this week showing that the crew experienced continuous stick shaker activation shortly after takeoff due to a faulty angle of attack sensor. Because its engines are heavier and mounted farther forward, Boeing equipped MAX airplanes with an autotrim system called MCAS. It’s activated at high angles of attack and automatically applies nose-down trim as an anti-stall protection. Pilot unions have complained that Boeing didn’t document the existence of MCAS—Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System—and crews weren’t trained on it.

    MCAS hasn’t been implicated in the crash, but the NTSC’s preliminary report showed that it was active during the crash flight and the pilots continually trimmed manually against its nose-down trim input. A previous crew that encountered the same problem addressed it through the standard runaway trim procedure, which is to use the airplane’s two stabilizer trim cutout switches to disable electric pitch trim. All models of the 737 are still equipped with manual trim wheels.

    Boeing set up urgent meetings with pilot unions from Southwest and American Airlines, although what was discussed hasn’t been reported. “We were appreciative that Boeing reached out to us,” said Mike Trevino, spokesman for the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, according to USA Today. A spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, the American Airlines union, said the organization was looking for the Boeing outreach. “They brought in their A team,” said Dennis Tajer of APA.

    At least one airline that operates the MAX, Southwest Airlines, says it’s discussing with Boeing the option of adding an angle-of-attack indication to the MAX’s primary flight display. Currently, the airplane has an AoA disagree flag that warns pilots if the two vane-type AoA sensors are providing inconsistent data. The option may be available on future MAX deliveries. Meanwhile, a report in the Daily Globe and Mail said Boeing may consider software revisions to the MAX, although the details weren’t revealed.
     
  2. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Rich, somethin tells me there's a lot more to this than meets the eye (or ears). Sinister stuff man. Just like MH-370 come 17. Hear me? Look up 'Abel Danger', Field McConnell. Q
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  3. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    yes, there is more to it. Why meet with the pilot unions and discuss the differences with the MAX 737. A new wing, bigger engines and fly by wire. However the Auto Trim is still conventional?

    The aircraft performs differently and holds more Passengers.

    Eventually it will come out (MAYBE)
     
  4. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.
     
  5. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Exactly!
     
  6. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member V

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    Not so sinister... Simple stupidity and lack of foresight by Boeing engineers.
    Boeing engineers didn't consider failure modes of their added MCAS.
    Now the company is in damage control mode.
    First move by Boeing was to keep Lion Air quiet and postpone the accident report.
    Lion Air responded by saying Boeing should own up and threatened to cancel their order for additional 737's.
    Second move by Boeing was to quiet the pilots' unions in the US.
    Next move by Boeing will be software changes and recommendations for additional training which Boeing will try to keep quiet.
    Standard public relations crap....
     
  7. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yes standard operating procedures!
     
  8. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Still more to it. Embarrassing to Boeing. G.E. might be involved, wink wink.
     
  9. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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    ...boy is the Swamp squirming!! The standard answer from the "regulator" will pin the ultimate responsibility on the manufacturer. They are taking hit for the lack of oversight and for the lack of communication about the different system.

    It's remarkable that the unions are saying that there was no awareness about the system in any of the training or operation manuals. So, we have two opportunities to have had the new system exposed, aircraft certification and training. Where was the oversight??Where was the "regulator" with their responsibility to ensure safety??

    The Swamp has circled the wagons. The usual blame shifting has started. Hopefully, one of these days, the "regulator" will be held accountable for their lack of doing their job of ensuring safety. 189 people may be still alive today by stimply making operators aware of the new system!! SAD!!

    "Drain the Swamp and hold the ''regulator' accountable"!!
     
  10. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    The accident happened in the wrong place and the right people were not killed.o_O
     
  11. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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