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No Boeing ‘797’ NMA? Boeing considering a 767X instead?

Discussion in 'Airplane, Aircraft & Jumbo Jet Talk' started by Everett 757, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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  2. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    It will be interesting to see where this goes.
     
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  3. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    They're not looking at the right A/C to replace. They need a replacement for the 757! What a buncha dumbasses run by Wall St. The 767 does NOT compete in the 737/A321 market place. Idiots!
     
  4. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Exactly right!
     
  5. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    We have Delta Airlines expressing strong interest at least two times in in the past year about buying 200 of the ‘797’, also United Airlines expressing interest in the ‘797’. Plus who knows how many other airlines? So Boeing resorts to the same worn out template that they did with the 737. Taking an old airframe and trying to make it into a modern one. Absolute stupidity. o_O
     
  6. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    The Wall Street guys are still calling the shots at Boeing. The airlines are looking for a 757 replacement not a 767 replacement. If the 767 could fill the void of the 757 why was the 757 ever built in the first place. "Low-Risk" is a money man's way of saying "cheaper".

    Boeing is not listening to it's own customers. What happened to the days of the Boeing 747 being built for Pan Am's requirements. Or the DC-10 for American and United's? That was a response to demand. There is an interest by many airlines for an NMA by Boeing yet Boeing doesn't respond.

    The 767 is fine aircraft, yet again a dated design. It may not need as much jury-rigging as the damn 737MAX but it's time for Boeing to become a leader again in new aircraft and yes built on a "clean sheet" design. I know Boeing is up to it's ass with alligators right now but if they wait any longer the orders will just go to Airbus.

    Not update and respond to your customers. Best Buy went from being on the brink of bankruptcy to the powerhouse retailer it is today because it responded to customer demand. Sears on the other hand tried to stay in the 1980's and did little reinvestment in their stores, online presence and merchandise to keep costs down.
    Sears will probably go into liquidation after this holiday season.
    It would be a shame to see Boeing go through a similar financial upheaval and loss of it's status as the aviation leader because of ignoring customer demand. If that happens all the Wall Street guys will just jump ship.
     
  7. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    These articles are steering y'all in the wrong direction. Boeing is listening to the customers. The freighter customers.
    The big cargo operators have a bunch of money tied up in ground equipment and containers that are sized to the 767.
    Therefore, they want 767's but with updated engines and avionics. This would also likely be incorporated into the KC-46a tanker program with the Department of Defense throwing some money towards the development. I bet that the many of the upgrades can be added to existing aircraft too. This is an easy way to generate revenue for Boeing. It will NOT be a replacement for the single-aisle NMA program contrary to what these articles allude to.
     
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  8. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Answer: Wall St. does what the World Central bank and Fed tells them to. Who else is the World Central bank and the Fed against? Da Daaah!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  9. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Two Different distinct markets with a little overlay with both plane types. Yeah Boeing is listening to their cargo customers but not their Commercial pax carriers or they would have tried to make the 737 MAX into a cargo plane too? Two different markets and to cover both with one plane type is ludicrous. This is why they designed the 767 and 757 in the 1st place. Boeing has a hell of a lot more orders for the Max(prospective 757s) than they would for a new 767.
     
  10. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Agree. The NMA program didn't start as a mid-size program. It was to generate ideas for a 737 replacement. The finance department killed that, maybe because Southwest is still stuck on keeping 737's. Foolishness on SWA's part too because a new single-aisle composite airframe would give them a huge jump in net profit despite the associated pilot training costs. Look at how well the 787 has improved other airlines' profits.
     
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  11. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    I could see a 767X for the freighter market, but certainly not for the passenger market. If I remember correctly several years ago Boeing tried to sell an upgraded passenger type 767 to the airlines, but there wasn’t any interest. Then they came up with the 787 to replace the 767 as a passenger jet which turned out to be a booming sales success.
     
  12. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    A new 797(757 replacement) is a no brainer when it comes to profits. Look at the off lease or repoed airframes that are being snatched up in no time or that are being fixed that otherwise would be 'totaled'(ie: ..Delta's)
     
  13. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Absolutely right!
     
  14. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    The MoM is SCREAMING for a 797(757) replacement! Boeing needs to grow a pair.
     
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  15. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    An upgrade to the Boeing 767 which is sound airframe for Boeing's cargo customers would benefit Boeing, Guy is right. Although they won't receive 5,000 orders for them like the 737MAX it would give Boeing a steady stream of revenue to pay the bills and maybe divert some funds into R&D for another program.

    I can understand the rationalization with Southwest wanting to keep a total Boeing 737 fleet for cost purposes, similar to Braniff with its all 727 Domestic fleet back in the 70's. But I think the Boeing 737 derivative has reached the point of diminishing returns. The MAX has created a mess not only for Boeing but the airlines that operate them as well including Southwest. Even with the MAX being a debacle there are airlines still wanting Boeing aircraft.

    We know Delta and United are interested in a 797 with Ed Bastian, Delta's CEO saying in a recent interview that he would love to see the 797 come to fruition and Delta would be a big customer for the aircraft. Their are airlines worldwide seeking the same thing.

    I know Boeing's got a lot of balls in the air right now, but at least a mention that they are starting an NMA program would probably raise Boeing's stock price. There is a huge demand for an aircraft like that right now. I'm sure Boeing has some ideas going forward past the 737MAX and the 777X they should start working seriously on it and announce their doing so.
     
  16. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Hence the A-321XLR. There's a problem in that the Wall Streeter execs of Boeing can't see past a 2 year plan. Commercial aviation requires longer term planning. It's been good news for Airbus!!!! There is a demand for a MoM, but the real profit has been missed. There are a magnitude higher amount of 737 orders that are already on the books despite the set-backs. Imagine if Boeing had kept on their original intent of building a 737 replacement in those secret meetings 7 or 8 years ago. They'd have a composite airframe with GTF engines starting production and much better economics than the A-320NEO. All those 737 orders would be converted to the new type. Some airlines would not have ordered Airbus. Even Southwest would be hard pressed not to convert because the economics would be that favorable. This whole MAX debacle would have been skipped too. Very sad....
     
  17. Biggles

    Biggles Hangar Bronze Member III

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    How far has the design of the 797 gone? I thought it was to fill the gap left by the end of 757 production and as such would be a similar but updated configuration using composite technology from the 787 development and a single aisle layout.
    One of the above articles describes it as a wide body twin aisle aircraft. Has this basic decision even been made yet? Would Boeing leave themselves with only the 737 in some form as their only narrow body option? Normally I would have said no, but lately, who knows!!
     
  18. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    That's why I posted that the article is misleading. Your thoughts still stand. However, Boeing said that they consulted with customers and decided to design the cargo compartments on the small side. Big mistake given the estimated range. Outside the US market, cargo and baggage space mean net profit. Mainland Chinese and Americans are the same when it comes to packing bags for vacations....

    The A-321XLR will have limited baggage space as well since a chunk of the cargo compartment will be for fuel. I suspect that for max range, some seats will have to be blocked off for weight limitations.
     
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  19. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Crazy if true ain't it? They offer a 757 type composite '797' single aisle and it'll sell like hotcakes. I swear, Boeing is like Coke chasing Pepsi these days.
     
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  20. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Yep, and with Wall Street idiots sitting on the wallet.
     
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