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Low fog brings down aircraft

Discussion in 'Trip Experiences' started by Richard Wyeroski, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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  2. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    It appears the aircraft was trying to land at Farmingdale Republic Airport. The pilot tried numerous approaches and the low fog prevented him from seeing the runway on an instrument approach. In desperation the pilot tried to land at Kennedy but ran out of fuel and crashed just short of hitting a house in Valley Steam.

    It was luck and there should be lessons learned here!!

    I do recall that the weather was very low with fog.......which is common on Long Island this time of year.

    I remember back in the late 70’s I was flying back to Long Island MacArthur Airport and the weather was reported to be low. Very low. All the airports under me were 00 and closed! I had about one hour of fuel when I reached MacArthur. It was not a good situation. The weather originally was low but the visibility was forecasted to be good. However fog developed and the weather went down. I elected to continue to MacArthur as the weather was reported to be 100 obscured 1/4 visibility! I was returning from a business trip in my trusty Cessna 150 that was IFR certified. with two radios an ILS system and a ADF. It would be close I thought, 1 hour fuel and below minimums.....not a good situation!

    I elected to do the ILS 6 and land straight ahead. As I descended below 200 feet I could not see anything that looked like a runway. But at this point my fuel was low and there was no place to go.....at 100 feet I started to level of and as the aircraft was 50 feet above the runway I saw some concrete and stated a flair and landed. The approach was luck and there was no wind and the biggest problem I had was to taxi in since there was no visibility in fog!

    I hairy approach, low fuel, unreported weather and luck.......
     
  3. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    These people were very fortunate.
     
  4. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Wow! Rich, thanks for sharing that nail-biting story. Whew. :eek:
     
  5. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yes they were lucky. Like dumb luck!! When the engine quits because of lack of fuel exhaustion, 99% of the time they would be hurt or killed! in low IFR. This situation immediately reminded me of my incident so long ago. It also reminded me of Avianca, a Colombian Airline, that crashed on a missed approach at JFK. It happened in the early nineties and the Captain basically neglected to tell ATC that he was low fuel.

    I often wondered why he did a miss knowing he had no fuel left. I thought of my incident where I committed myself to land or crash on the runway. I thought I would survive even if I hit the runway ?!

    Unfortunately Avianca flamed out on the miss and crashed next to many houses on the north shore of Long Island. About half of the passengers including the crew were killed. It was a horrible accident.

    I asked a simple question that “if the Captain knew he was out of fuel, why didn’t he land straight ahead on the last ILS and crash or land on the 14,000 foot runway he had in front of him.” I believe many, if not all would have survived......a tragedy

    AVIANCA FLIGHT 52 CRASH
    https://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/05/nyregion/avianca-flight-52-the-delays-that-ended-in-disaster.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  6. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Interesting that you would mention Avianca flight 52. I just saw a weather channel documentary on this and it showed the failures that led to that crash. It was very interesting. It certainly was a tragedy.
     
  7. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    My point was that My flight, Avianca and the 172 had one thing in common. Fuel exhaustion. One thing about a runway, it is clear of obstacles and landing with power and holding the aircraft “off” would produce a smooth touch down........and a survivable landing.

    An advanced procedure I do with instrument students is landing with power under the hood with a slight pitch up on the attitude indicator. To the surprise of the student the aircraft lands itself!
     
  8. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Yes, absolutely right.
     
  9. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Then there was that United Airlines jet (flight #173) that crashed near Portland, Oregon in December 1978. It was the same thing about not monitoring fuel levels. 10 people died in that crash.
     
  10. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Update on 172 crash
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    C172 Pilot Attempted Multiple Approaches Before Landing In Long Island Neighborhood
    MARC COOK
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Three occupants survived the crash of a Cessna 172 into a Long Island suburb Sunday night, according to reports in the New York Post. The 1977 Cessna 172N was on a flight from Niagara Falls, New York, to Republic Airport in Farmingdale, New York. According to FlightAware.com, the Cessna took off at 5:12 p.m. and was flight-planned to land at FRG by 8:30.

    According to reports, the aircraft was rented from a flight school at FRG by Dongl Kim, 27. Kim was returning to Republic but could not land in the fog. "They attempted to land at Republic Airport, they missed the runway four times, they were redirected into Kennedy, they missed the runway twice at Kennedy—as they came around, they ran out of fuel," police commissioner Patrick Ryder said.



    The FlightAware track suggests the ill-fated 172 made three attempts at the Republic ILS RWY 14 approach before being sent westward to try again at JFK. The Cessna appears to have attempted one approach and then ran out of fuel on the second attempt at Kennedy. It had been airborne for a bit more than five hours.

    Weather at Republic around the time of the approaches was 1/4-mile visibility in fog, ceiling variable at 200 feet. Kennedy wasn’t much better, and two airports to the east, Islip and Brookhaven, were both fogbound. The Cessna came down on Clarenden Drive in densely populated Valley Stream, New York, just 3 SM from JFK. No one on the ground was hurt and, as expected, there was no post-crash fire.
     
  11. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Wow! It could have been so much worse. :eek:
     
  12. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member III

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    Wow Rich your story is nail biting. I can't believe the above pictures those people in the plane and the houses in the neighborhood really lucked out.

    The Avianca crash from what I can remember I was at work at LGA that night, the F/O was handling the communications because the Captain lacked the ability to communicate well in English. They never declared an Emergency but the F/O kept telling ATC they were low on fuel. There was miscommunication on both parts because ATC kept trying to route the 707 into a holding pattern above Northern L.I. The crew never even declared an emergency as each engine died from fuel starvation. The people who did survive did because of the lack of fire. Avianca sued the FAA for not giving priority although the word "Emergency" was never used the Federal Government settled with Avianca for an undisclosed amount accepting some responsibility for the accident.

    With the United Airlines Portland incident, the Captain became fixated on the landing gear light for the right main gear not being down and locked. Similar to the Eastern 401 L1011 in the Everglades incident the whole crew seemed to be fixated on this issue. the Captain actually circled Portland for over an hour as his Flight Engineer continually warned him how critically low they actually were on fuel. As each engine flamed out only then did he realize what had happened. Both the F/O and F/E were found by the NTSB not to be forceful enough to warn their Captain who they said suffered from "Problem Fixation". This was another accident that contributed to the push for Crew Resource Management. That crash happened in the late 70's the Avianca accident in the early 90's where Crew Resource Management was already in place with many airlines, obviously not Avianca. Tragic in both situations.
     
  13. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Analyzing accidents is scary. How a simple problem causes an accidents and hundreds die!

    I alway remember Avianca 52, primarily because my wife who is columbian was scheduled to be aboard. Ironically she did not depart that day because of a problem. It took me hours to find this out after the accident!!!.....
     
  14. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    I had forgotten about flight 401 in the Everglades. It was a similar situation with the crew being fixated on that singular issue and they ended up crashing in the Everglades. That whole incident led to some weird stuff, with the reported sightings of dead crew members appearing on other planes that had parts on them salvaged from flight 401. This accident wasn’t from fuel starvation, but when one of the crew had accidentally disengaged the autopilot.
     
  15. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Another case of poor planning, 'get homeitis', and I suspect, sub par piloting issues.
     
  16. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Whatever it was, these folks were extremely lucky. :eek:
     
  17. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Portland, DC-8, right?
     
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  18. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    :eek: Talk about a nail biter huh?
     
  19. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    It was the Portland, DC-8.
     
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  20. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    The TV show 'Air Disasters' covered that one too. Capt. was delusional. Proper CRM woulda dictated the F/O take over on that one.
     

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