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Just as I suspected.... Lion Air crash.....

Discussion in 'Latest Airline Incidents' started by Exuma Guy, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    BTW there are over 220 737 Max aircraft flying with this possible design error!
     
  2. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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    I find this video interesting. We'll see what the final report says??!!
     
  3. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member II

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    I thought manual flying was just that no computer augmentation a way to "Just Fly The Plane" when the computers are receiving bad data or have some kind of software issue. The Boeing Flight Manual is not a IKEA Pictogram on how to put together a bookshelf. Huge oversight on Boeing's part and the FAA certification process. Rush to beat Airbus in my book and I'm "If it's not Boeing then I'm not going" person. Had this been a US Carrier it would still be in the news cycle. So an AD has been issued but not all carriers have received it? Both Boeing and the FAA have blood on their hands with this one I'm sorry to say.
     
  4. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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    ...well, because of my disability, I just have a hard time believing that the "regulator" did their job. The FSB says that between the 800 and the Max 8 there is no change in flight characteristics, no procedures changes, and catagory B difference training and checking. So no demonstration just a ground training and checking. There was no evaluation among the other series of aircraft. SAD!!
     

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  5. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member V

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    Keep in mind that the final report will be issued by the Indonesian regulator.
    Here's some hints about the tone it will take-
    This article hints at Boeing's deflection of suits from the airline-
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/indonesias-lion-air-meet-boeing-092345357.html
    This article hints at the airline's deflection of blame-

    https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/s...ir-hid-equipment-failures-and-beat-regulators
    I suspect the final report, which will likely not be finished within ICAO's time schedule, will be anti-climatic.
     
  6. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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    ...just like any highly publicized crash, there is a lot of finger pointing. What's surprising is the reaction from the US "regulator" and the response from the US operators about the non disclosure of the system from the manufacturer.

    Like Rich has said before, the bulk of the blame will be the crew's failure to maintain control of the aircraft. A contributing factor will be a lack of knowledge with the MCAS. Any suit will probably be a toss up. The US "regulator" will probably get off Scott free!!
     
  7. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Wow! Very interesting articles. Especially the one from straits times. Borrowing heavily from banks, etc. I get the impression that Lion Air is much like Allegiant. :eek:
     
  8. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    No surprise about Lion Air Guy. The last article says it all. Even with new aircraft they have Maintnenance problems. Lion is one of Boeings biggest customers that's great, until they go bankrupt and Boeing or some one has to take back all those aircraft.

    This says it all from the article!!!!

    What I saw was a company, from the top down, that made saving money a motto - so spend the minimum on pilot training, salaries, management, everything,"

     
  9. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    Like I said, a 4th world airline.
     
  10. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    You are exactly right!
     
  11. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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    ...heck, we have operators in the US that swap parts out between aircraft all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've jump seated where the aircraft just had a mechanical (you knew that thing was broke way before). I've seen crews that didn't understand the write ups as to what system is inop. I've even been refused entry and the flight was cancelled because I was in the gate area.

    Lion may be cutting corners, but it still doesn't explain why the US operators didn't know about the MCAS from either the manufacturer or the "regulator". The "regulator" had two opportunities to check operators awareness, the aircraft FSB and the operator training approval.

    I'm sure that by the time the final report comes out, most everyone will have forgotten about the crash. Any financial settlement agreement will be done quietly. The US should consider themselves lucky that it didn't happen on US soil.
     
  12. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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  13. Lord Leighton

    Lord Leighton Hangar Gold Member I

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    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-hold-airline-call-737-034351747.html
     
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  14. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    The NTSB will take a year to come out with a final report! It happened 10,000 miles away almost a month ago. The accident has passed by the main stream media. It is quieting down and life is going on. Obviously not to scare the flying public the FAA has said very little and the unions have looked into the cause and the appropriate training for US operators are being done. It is the normal circle the wagons routine when a horrific crash occurs.

    An example is when the big crash occurred back in 2001 when an Airbus crashed killing all on board. The accident occurried right after 9/11. The blame eventually was placed on the co-pilot who allegedly broke the rudder by using too much rudder inputs. Airbus had other crashes where the tail came off, but they were supposedly not connected. Airbus then had a crash where the pitot tubes iced over and the crew lost control and all aboard were killed. The tail BTW was not found in the area of the main wreckage?

    They say aviation is safe and based on the numbers an awful lot of people fly by air. The incidents are increasing and bogus parts are increasing and maintenance and training world wide have less and less government oversight!

    Flight 800 was. a fuel tank explosion??

    Just adding up the fatal accidents above puts the loss of life in the thousands over a period of time.

    Any one who seriously follows aviation safety knows that the signs are there and the accident rate is going up.

    The Indonesian crash will be played down and as Russ says all will quietly be paid off.

    What is the answer? There are a number of reasons, but it is easy to see that the FAA is having no effect at stopping the increase of accidents and incidents.

    So maybe a first step is to start the agency over from scratch. I blame Flight Standards!
     
  15. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member III

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    I just love the replies to this story!!

    The manufacturer cancelled the phone call to a date TBD. The "regulator" had two chances to ensure the operators covered the system. It's strange that UA had trained for it even though it wasn't in the manual. And why didn't AA and SWA even know about the system??

    This whole thing stinks!! Maybe Lion is a 4th world airline, but that's little consolidation to the 189 people who are now dead because of a new and different system.

    I finally found the "regulator's" discussion in the FSB about the system. They marked it as a catagory B difference training and checking. That means operators only need to be made aware of the system and test orally or written form.

    So the question still remains, why didn't the manufacturer have it in the manual and why didn't AA and SWA have it in their training programs?? Even though Lion may skimp on training and operations, it appears that the manufacturer didn't provide the information about the system.

    Yes Rich, you are right, Flight Standards has some explaining to do. It will all be forgotten now that the US operators have been trained and checked on MCAS. Standards has adopted the no harm no foul approach with their oversight. SAD!!
     
  16. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Yes Russ exactly right. FAA is lucky it did not happen here. I could have easily!

    Till next time..........
     

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