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FAA pressured to ground Max jets!

Discussion in 'FAA News, Opinion and Articles' started by Richard Wyeroski, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    The FAA is being pressured to ground all Boeing 737 Max-8 aircraft. Two similar crashes killing 346 people has spooked world wide operators.

    Currently there are over 500 Max jets operating. About 1/3 have now been voluntarily grounded. Boeing has orders for over 5000 Max aircraft from world wide airlines.

    >>>>>>>>MORE
    [​IMG]
    MAINTENANCE, REPAIR & OVERHAUL
    Operators, Regulators Ground 737 MAX 8s; Wait For Answers
    Groundings started less than 24 hours after Ethiopian Airlines Flight ET302, a three-month-old 737 MAX 8 crashed six minutes after takeoff from Addis Ababa in clear weather March 10.


    SAFETY & REGULATORY
     
  2. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    EASA has suspended all MAX-8 and MAX-9 flights in European airspace by any operator.
    There are reports that the Ethiopian crew reported unreliable airspeed as their emergency.
    Boeing stock will take another hit tomorrow.
     
  3. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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  4. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    Yep its time for the FAA to grow a set of you know what and ground the 737MAX. I'm a Boeing guy and you will not find any Airbus hats, sweatshirts or flight jackets in my closets. I know Airbus makes a fine aircraft but It's a personal preference probably stemming back to my first flight on a National Airlines B727 when I was 15.. But it's time that the FAA ground the aircraft and stop the embarrassing argument over the safety of the MAX and take the higher road and again I say save face and say they are grounding the MAX under "An Abundance of Caution." now that the EU had grounded the aircraft. There is no shame in saying until further data is analyzed and that full confidence in the aircraft by all parties and countries and operators involved can be restored we are keeping the aircraft grounded. I've read articles and news stories that while the Lion Air and Ethiopian accidents are not identical there is enough similarities involving varying altitudes and vertical speed issues that indicate that the two accidents may not just be a coincidence. Of course Boeing, American and Southwest are going to say they have full confidence in the aircraft since $$$$ is involved. While grounding the plane would cause disruption in Southwest and American Schedules both airlines' fleet size would allow for an adjustment to their operations and flight crews since the 737MAX does not make up a sizeable percentage of the fleet of both airlines. Passengers may be inconvenienced and I know people will always complain no matter what the reason but if presented with for "safety reasons" most reasonable people will accept this as a viable reason for any rescheduling or delays. Although having worked for NW and telling passengers that the reason for the delay is weather related and the Captain feels it is unsafe to operate the aircraft until conditions change I have still have gotten screamed at on how incompetent we all are. So be it. It saves lives. It's time for the FAA, Boeing, Southwest and American to stop worrying about the $$$ and worrying about their reputation. I believe the continued denial of any possible issues with the MAX by the FAA, Boeing and US operators will result in lack of credibility by the American public. It's time to step up and do the right thing.
     
  5. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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    Let's see, how many former "regulator" employees work for American and Southwest?? How many work for Boeing?? All the bean counters worry about is satisfying the 10 to the minus nine safety requirements.
     
  6. Everett 757

    Everett 757 Hangar Silver Member VII

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    Some steps will have to be taken soon. This is has ballooned up so big now, that it’s almost to the point of the damage not being containable.
     
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  7. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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  8. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    The FAA is insisting along with Boeing that the Max is safe. They refuse to ground the aircraft. Is this right? I will say the second crash looks a lot like the first. It will cost 10's of millions to ground the aircraft. Lawsuits, lost orders, will go into the 100's off millions. It is a no win situation for anyone.

    The 787 battery problem cost Boeing 100's of millions when the aircraft was grounded for 5 months. The JAL flight caught fire at Logan Aiport after it landed.......if it happened over the Pacific., that would have been a different story! The JAL, FAA and Boeing were lucky!!

    346 people are dead with these two crashes. Most of the Max users around the world have voluntarily grounded their aircraft.

    The question out there is if the FAA certified the Max, why did not this problem show up? Was the FAA not aware that the new MCAS system was installed in the aircraft emergency system. If so where is the testing data?...A lot of unanswered questions with no answers.....

    I would not listen to politicians, since they blow with the wind and have no idea about about aviation and aircraft certification. Yet they are yelling at the FAA!

    The black boxe has been found and the airline is sending it to Europe not Washington for analysis ? They don't trust he FAA? is that it?


    So with 346 people dead and most of the world airlines are grounding their Max aircraft out of caution until the investigation finds the cause.

    What should the FAA do?............
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  9. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    I knew that Ethiopia did not have the technology to retrieve the information from the black boxes and I asked myself what are they waiting for? They have the NTSB right there investigating the accident that has one of best facilities in the world for this kind of thing. So what are they waiting for?
    After reading the NY Times article and hearing the same information on the news this morning I can understand Ethiopian officials are reticent to send the black boxes to the U.S. for examination considering the FAA's response to this accident that killed 157 human beings on their soil.
    While I truly believe the NTSB is an agency with high integrity and does even butt heads with FAA I could understand why Ethiopian officials sending the black boxes to another country with total impartiality. If they do send them to London and AAIB is the agency that does the work I believe them to be equally capable and in this case impartial so all the findings will be considered completely transparent.
    The U.S. pilots that reported control issues what agency was this reported to? Was it the FAA or the NTSB?
    I agree with Everett I think that this issue has probably reached the point that it is uncontainable.
     
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  10. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Interesting fact is the France is a 25% owner of Airbus. I would be skeptical as to their impartiality?!........
     
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  11. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Neither. It was NASA. NASA administers the ASRS program.
     
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  12. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    Thanks EG for that clarification. I just read an article indicating that in an internal audit the FAA is not diligent enough in reviewing the data that NASA collects and needs improvement. I guess that's obvious. In the article they actually had the PDF's printed out by NASA with the pilots reports. All indicate similar issues with the nose down attitude or loss of altitude and/or vertical speed while the pilot was engaging or disengaging the auto pilot or loss of auto throttle response. There is a software issue here somewhere. The FAA has lost creditability here and I am aware new software patches are to be installed in April. I am afraid that it's too late to late to restore any confidence in the FAA and that Boeing's reputation unfortunately is permanently tarnished. The grounding of the Boeing 787 with it's lithium ion battery issues while not causing any loss of life thankfully but could have did not disparage the image of the aircraft after the causes were determined and rectified. It would be a tougher job with B737MAx since the aircraft has already been involved in the loss of 359 lives. Still after the Ethiopian accident if the FAA had an opportunity here had grounded the aircraft and a different response from Boeing both entities would not have suffered the complete loss of confidence they do now.
    My only question now how many of those 5000 orders for the B737MAX will be cancelled by the airlines and switched to Airbus?
     
  13. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    The Canadian Transportation Minister had just announced the grounding and over flight restrictions of all Boeing 737 MAX8 and MAX9 aircraft until further notice. This he notes was based on satellite data showing similarities in the control issues with both the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines accidents as well as feedback from pilots who fly the aircraft. We're flying solo now. Will the FAA take action now?
     
  14. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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  15. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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  16. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    Why did they risk it? The President should not have been involved?
     
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  17. Rotorruss

    Rotorruss Hangar Silver Member IV

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    Well, the DOT Secretary is political figure who doesn't want to make waves. The acting Administrator is a revolving door guy. AVS1 is also a revolving door and manufacturer insider guy. AVS2 has messed up everything he touches.

    Just like 787 battery, the Max shouldn't have made it production with the unknowns that were discovered by the crashes. What's worse, is the fact the US aviation, the gold standard, was last country to ground the Max. No wonder Ethiopia is sending the boxes to Europe for analysis. The US has become a laughing stock.

    Thank you Mr President for standing up for aviation safety!!
     
  18. Richard Wyeroski

    Richard Wyeroski Hangar Gold Member I

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    .......Sounds like some one is getting paid off?;)
     
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  19. Kevin

    Kevin Hangar Bronze Member IV

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    The FAA pretty much repeated what the Canadian Transport Minister said but we all know the President told the FAA to ground the damn thing. No he shouldn't get theoretically get involved but left up to the FAA we probably still be the only country on the planet allowing the plane to fly.

    On another note, the black boxes are on the way France where the BEA will probably do the downloading of data and teaching Airbus what not to do.

    This whole incident makes the U.S. which is supposed to be the Gold Standard in aviation and accident investigation look like bumbling idiots. It's downright embarrassing if not criminal.
     
  20. Exuma Guy

    Exuma Guy Hangar Silver Member VI

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    Airbus has had a procedure for this for about 4 years.
    It started with a Qantas A-330 followed by another Airbus a few months later but without loss of life.
    Boeing had a chance to learn from Airbus' mistake but it seems a lot of common sense in Boeing management didn't make the move when the HQ was changed to Chicago.
     
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